1 year (almost) later update

Hey. Almost a year ago I published my first post here and on reddit, and it did pretty well. Got my first reddit gold there actually, it was a pretty cool feeling. Not even a month later I stopped posting. I’ve since completely quit crafting, deleted my reddit account, quit the game for around half a year, and came back with the quarantine. The same quarantine that resulted in quite a big spike in my blog views:

Anyway, I’ve been getting a few dms on Discord lately so I thought I’d write an update here.

I returned home to Russia from China in July, so I actually had a ping where I could do somewhat serious PvP. I also had much less time as I was working a desk job again. I was doing hellgates and getting pretty good at it, found some new friends who were also doing hellgates, so I just dropped crafting completely, and I haven’t returned to it since. Crafting was really fun, I look fondly on all the drama I’ve took part in thanks to that and plot ownership, and I’m glad for all the great experiences I’ve had thanks to all that, not even mentioning it enabling me to not ever worry about silver. My guides being somewhat successful and having people write to me how it helped them was wonderfull, and I want to thank everyone who read them and especially everyone who reached out to me. For sure feel free to do that still, but keep in mind I might not have the most accurate answers to your questions, I’m not quite up to date anymore 🙂

I still play the game, but I pretty much only do 5×5 and occasionally 2×2 hellgates. If you’re interested in that content and can tolerate me and my groupies speaking russian, you’re welcome here https://www.twitch.tv/thulgrom and here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFbYrgqzk2Z37CG1weIncVQ/videos

Here’s what that looks like:

I might do some hellgate guides in the future, but I’m not sure when will that be.

That’s all for now and thanks again for reading, later guys!

June plot summary

As promised, I’m posting the data from my plots in Thetford. It’s just one month and just 3 stations, but I haven’t seen anything like this anywhere yet, so it should still be a decent insight into how much money plots make.

I’ve also had a little contest with a prize when I originally posted this. I’ve moved that section to the end of this post, check it out if you’re curious.

Plots

A little background

In the May auction I’ve managed to snag 3 plots for an extremely good price, 11m combined. RuKors, one of the biggest owners in Thetford, allegedly got banned for RMT and he didn’t defend his plots, nor did he tell anyone about it. Most of his plots went for under 10m, some even under 1m. He still managed to demolish his buildings.

I still had little idea about the actual worth of plots at the time, so I was playing it safe – betting just 10m on 7 plots. Getting 3 plots at the same time for this cheap was very handy, now I could somewhat safely find out if plots are worth my time.

Here are the plots I had:

Data

Now here’s the data summary from June:

“Line” describes how close the plots are to the center of the city. First line would be the very first stations you come across while leaving the center platform. Second would be the plots on islands further away, where you have to cross a bridge to get to them. I’ve described my plots as “Line 1.5” because even though you don’t have to cross a bridge to get to them, they’re still not the first obvious choice for people who don’t use the minimap to find the best taxes.

“Bulding price” here is 10% of it’s material price, as you can demolish a fully repaired building to get 90% of it’s materials back.

“Food” is the price of food I’ve spent on the station over the course of the month, calculated using the market price in Thetford at the start of the month.

The repair price was 36 T8 blocks for all 3 stations, despite a pretty big difference in use. It seems that the buildings decay at the same rate as long as they are being used.

I’ve lost 2 of my plots in the June auction, both giving me 35m as I’ve tried to defend them with 35m bids.

“Total invested” is the price of the auction + the full price of the buildings, the amount I had to invest at the start of the month and couldn’t take out until the end of it.

“Recoverable” is the price of 90% of the materials I can get back at the end of the month if I don’t manage to defend my plots.

I’ve held the taxes with the cartel for most of the month (55% Hunter’s Lodge and 50% Mage’s Tower), except with the Warrior’s Forge, where I had 5% tax for most of the month. As you can see I made little to no money from people using my Forge, but thanks to someone buying the plot for 70m I’ve actually made decent money in the end.

Also worth mentioning that I estimate quite a decent part (25-60%) of my revenue coming from my associates – people who asked me for associate fees and have only been paying 25% tax, be it people just asking in game or people coming from my blog posts/guides. A big part of owning a plot and making money from it is snatching these big time crafters. I don’t think you need to write guides to get them though, but it will probably take you several months to get to the amount I got to in one.

My personal use is not included in this chart, it was hard and time consuming to calculate accurately so I just kept tabs on it separately. It pretty much amounts to around 5.5m savings combined, compared to using 25% tax stations. That is from crafting upwards of 120m worth of items and studying a few leftovers.

I’ve been lazy this month and only really crafted in Thetford twice: once a 95-100m value bulk with 25% taxes “only” going up to 3m, and another time a 15m value bulk. If I was crafting at the same pace as in May, I could have easily saved over 20m in taxes over the course of the month.

Here is the graph of gross margins (revenue minus food cost) from the stations:

Let me also show you the full data of my Hunter station so I can better explain the fluctuations:

10th of June is when I had my first bulk craft. It’s why there is a slight dip in the gross margin graph, as I haven’t added the expected revenue.

You can see the revenue from all stations go up during the “Bonus fame week”, from 13th to 19th.

21st is when the servers were down for several hours, hence very little revenue.

23rd is when I had my second bulk.

25th with a “4%” is when my neighbor Forge dropped it’s tax to 4% and my Forge pretty much stopped having customers.

“Plane” is me having a 9 hour flight right when the auction results rolled in, so the 29th data is more like 36 hours of usage instead of 24 hours.

June auction

After a little bit of thinking about how much I should defend with, I’ve decided on 35m for all three stations. That led to me losing 2 stations and defending one, spending 23m on it. I liked holding a few stations and I’ll miss the ones I lost, but I think I’ve made the right decision and I’m happy with how it turned out. The bidding dilemma is not as easy as it looks, which I’ll explain in detail a little bit later.

I’ve also bet over 150m on other plots, but only won one (funnily enough the one I bid my leftovers on, 16m). I’ve started the new month with 2 plots and 275m silver in my pocket.

My thoughts

With today’s prices, around 3-10% of taxes (depends on items that get crafted and their tier, on my plots it was around 5%) are eaten up by food and repair costs. Lets say your plot has 5% tax maintenance and everything else you pocket. Now to get as much revenue from such a plot at 15% tax as someone at 55% tax makes, you’d need to have 5 times bigger usage than him. At 10% it would have to be 10 times as big.

The usage rates differ a lot. People in the immediate proximity to the center of the town get most of the clients. My Mage’s Tower got used more than my Hunter’s Lodge, despite being further away, thanks to having 50% tax while being the closest second lane Mage’s Tower in town.

After a month of being an owner I can point out a couple of problems with the system, in addition to problems I’ve already outlined in The Big Bad Cartel post.

Problems with the current system

There are pretty much two types of people who make good money from holding plots: people with a lot of plots: most of the money they make comes from plots which don’t get bid on; and people who own plots at the immediate exit from the town center.

This whole system is based on people not bidding on your plots or bidding very little. As soon as your plots get a decent bid, you lose all money you’ve made this month, if not more.

For example take my Hunter’s Lodge: if I had bought it for 70m like the guy who bought it after me did, I’d lose 15m even after getting outbid the next month at the same 70m and getting 35m back. Now lets say this guy bid 80m and I defended with 90m next month. I now pay 40m to retain the plot, and, assuming the same usage (around 25m gross margin), lose another 15m in total. If you own a lot of plots you will get lucky on some and make money from them, but is it really worth it?

You will get high defense bids on some plots and very low on others, changing from one month to another. You might lose money on high bids one month but then make it back and over the next month. Having a lot of plots makes you have somewhat stable profit every month. It still requires having a ton of silver at the end of every month, which

“Easy”, you’ll say, “just don’t defend with high bids!”. Well, then you’ll lose your plot for the low bid you’ve placed. It would work if everyone bid very little, but there is an incentive to bit higher for people with a lot of plots. Low bids probably aren’t happening unless something changes in the system. And if you don’t have a cartel holding 50%+ fees you’ll lose money pretty much no matter what.

If you don’t have a lot of plots, I think your best bet is to bid around the same value you’re expecting to get from the plot in a month, and then pray people either underbid a lot or overbid so you sell the plot.

I really don’t have a solution here, the whole system is just bad for everyone involved.

Another problem, which might actually be a good contributor to the first one, is the auction cycles. Once a month you have to liquidate everything you have to amass hundreds of millions of silver to take part in an auction. And then if you don’t get lucky you have to wait another month. It’s why I think a lot of people don’t even bother betting.

I think making auctions rotate with a cycle being 1 month but starting and ending at different times would be cooler. This way you can make an auction in one of the cities happen every 5 days.

Conclusion

So is there money in the plot business? Yes. That is if you get a really cheap plot in a city with a cartel, the cartel doesn’t get broken, you get lucky with a placement and the station you chose, and you get lucky with the auction next month.

I don’t think I’m ever betting more than a few millions on plots in outer cities again. I have finally checked out Caerleon’s market and the items there are even more profitable to craft than in Thetford, even with the 50% tax. I’m probably getting a plot in Caerleon next month, I think I can easily recoup the investment from my crafting alone (that is if I actually craft like before).

I’m sorry for no posts lately, I have a lot going on irl right now and I’m getting a bit bored with Albion. There are posts in the works but I’m not sure when I’ll get around to finishing them. Until then, I wish you good luck on the markets!

P.S: (outdated, see updates below) I’m still offering associate fees on my Mage station and my new Alchemist station. As it’s a new type of station I won’t be transferring the old associate list to it, you’d have to write to me again if you want to use it as an associate. Thanks to everyone who have used my stations and I’m sorry I can’t provide the 25% taxes to some of you anymore.

UPDATE 4/07: I sold my mage plot for 65m, so it’s only Alchemist now. I will probably take part in the next auction cycle but I don’t see much reason in holding plots right now when people are buying them way over their market value. And there’s a 7% Mage tower available atm so it’s not like you guys don’t have a place to craft at.

UPDATE 26/07: Sold my last plot at the end of the cycle for 60m. I’m pretty busy now so keeping up with the plots and stuff gets in the way of my primary activity atm: hellgates.

Contest (outdated)

A few days ago I’ve accidentally went out of bounds in Thetford. After confirming with a friend it wasn’t just on my end and reproducing it, I’ve decided to wait a bit and have a little fun with it. I’ve submitted a support ticket just before posting this. I don’t see any way of how this can be used to gain an advantage in the game, so hopefully I, or anyone who manages to reach me, won’t get banned over using it.

Here is my location:

I will give 3 million silver to the first person who reaches me and throws me a trade request while standing next to me. The first 26 characters who reach me will also get a T4.1 Light Crossbow crafted by me: 1 excellent, 10 outstanding, 10 good and 5 normal ones.

Reddit post with the timeline: https://www.reddit.com/r/albiononline/comments/c7yctl/city_plot_data_from_my_plots_and_a_3m_silver/

Sadly I completely forgot I had to go to the office the next day, and so I had to leave early. I’ve only managed to hand out 5 crossbows. It was still fun, and the most important part – giving the 3 million away – was accomplished.

Diversify your gameplay

It may sound obvious to some people and stupid to others, but you really should try different things from time to time. Not only there is a chance you’ll find new fun in the game, but you’ll also discover things that will help you with your other activities.

Doing PvE and PvP, being aware of the meta and experiencing it yourself is what will put you above other traders and crafters. You will get a feel of which items are going to be selling good, as well as get a feel for the price of a lot of gear and artifacts as you’ll be selling and buying them frequently. Shifts in the meta will always change up the prices, and sometimes you can make millions off of these shifts if you’re fast enough. You will also discover items to craft and sell with big margins naturally from selling your loot and just being curious while doing it.

On the other hand, if you PvP a lot, crafting your own gear and being aware of the prices will make you save a lot of money, and also enable you to potentially sell your loot for more silver.

I’ve been doing a lot of 5v5 HGs the last couple of days (also quite busy with work, hence no posts), and it’s extremely fun when you get together a decent team. Very good fame and money too.

This is what ~4-5 hours of hellgating in 4.1 overcharge (no capes, no expensive artifacts, average set is under 50k silver with a horse and overcharge) look like. Not sure yet, but I’m guessing this is in the ballpark of 15-20m silver.

And here are my stats as of 14th of June. Getting my PvE fame up, aiming at 25m by the end of the bonus fame week.

I won’t be spamming Reddit with mini-posts/rants, so if you want to follow the blog and get updates when I post new stuff, you can either like the thread on the forums or subscribe with your email/WordPress account by clicking on the menu button in the top right corner of this page.

Playing the market for profit

This started as a guide on flipping, but I’ve included multiple other ways of playing the market and increasing your profits along the way. We’ll still talk about flipping first, though it is not nearly the best way to make money in this post, so strap in and enjoy the guide (get it? like ride but guide hahaha).

What is flipping?

When talking about flipping in MMOs people usually mean buying low and selling high, often on the same market/auction. In Albion you would set up a buy order, then sell whatever you get from that buy order. That’s it. The “hard” part is finding items to flip. You’ll find out that once you try, it’s not really that hard.

I haven’t done much flipping recently, but in order to give examples for this post I’ve revisited several items I’ve flipped in the past.

Here are some of my buy orders (darkened buy order is the one set up by you).

I left these sitting over night and here are the results:

That’s around 60k profit. May seem like very little, but if you have a bunch of these orders, it accumulates over time.

Finding items to flip

Now let’s try finding something new to flip. The most straight-forward way of doing it is just choosing a category (armor/melee/ranged etc) and clicking on random items, trying to find those with big difference between buy and sell orders and with jumps on the Market History graph.

You’ll be better off narrowing down the search first. We’re looking for items that get sold to buy orders more often than not. Random drops are like that. But you’ll have extreme competition on things like runes and tomes, so you’ll need to look for gear.

To narrow it further we need gear that is bought often, that would be meta gear – gear that is popular in PVP/PVE activities at the moment. If you don’t know what gear is it, you’ll just have to skip this and figure it out on your own when checking the orders. If an item is bought often it’s almost certainly meta in some part of the game.

I’ll choose T4.1 artifact equipment. It usually costs a decent amount, moves fast, is very frequently used in black zone PVP, and a lot of people sell it without looking after getting it from Hell Gates , random dungeons or ganking. I have also crafted a lot of artifact gear when I started crafting, so I’m more or less familiar with the prices and time-to-sell when it comes to it.

Let’s see here…

Not as much selling to buy orders here, I’ll just list 1. Listing 1 will also discourage others from overcutting you.

Good, next one.

These used to be really popular shortly after f2p launch. I guess people thought having two hammers was bad-ass. I thought so too. Too bad the weapon turned out to be terrible when actually used.

Volume is pretty bad but we can make some easy money here over time, very low investment too.

If you’ve read my guide on crafting and started crafting already, one easy way to start flipping is combining flipping with crafting. Flip items that you craft, as you know their price trends already and frequently set up sell orders for them anyway. Pretty much no additional research is required here.

Artifacts are another thing to flip, same reason – gets often sold without looking as it usually comes from a random drop.

This one looks alright.

We can see that people both sell to buy orders somewhat frequently and buy from sell orders.

Another example, a bit cheaper.

Last one on the list: mounts. People sell and buy mounts, especially T3-T4 horses, all the time – you’ll grab one when going ganking/HGing, and you’ll drop one if you die. I would bet T3 horse is the most common drop in PVP.

When I started playing, due to a huge influx of new players, donkeys were getting sold by the hundreds, maybe thousands per day. I made my first money flipping donkeys in Swamp Cross (buying for 2-4k, selling for 5-6k), and when I could afford a T5 Ox I started transporting them to Thetford and flipping them there as well. I’m still not sure why people bought donkeys in those numbers, but they did and I was selling them faster than I could buy them.

It turns out the donkey flipping business is still very much alive! The volume is around 500 per day, and you can make 1-1.5k per donkey, that’s not at all a bad number.

And here are the horses. 1.5-2k transactions per day, almost 3k to be made per horse flipped.

You can flip other things like Tomes Of Insight, runes, materials (.2, .3 materials often have a huge difference between buy and sell orders), trophies and so on. Just don’t forget the 3% you’re paying for listing and selling an item, as well as 1% you’re paying for listing a buy order. When the margins get low, these 4% might decide the difference between profiting and losing money.

Why not overcut by 1 silver?

By overcutting by more than a few silver we accomplish two things:

  1. The people under us will think “oh he will get these 5 items and bug off, I’d rather wait it out than get into a cutting standout with him”, so less chance someone cuts above us.
  2. Increasing the chance someone will sell to us. The lower the margin, the bigger the chance people will sell to the buy order. Even if most of the people who sell to us don’t even bother checking the stats and sell orders, it is still a bonus.

Combining listing just 1 item with overcutting by more than a few thousands of silver, we will rarely get overcut by others.

We’ll talk more about under- and overcutting in a separate post some time in the future. For now I’ll just say this: don’t get into cutting wars, it costs you time and money. Don’t update orders more than once per day, it is almost never worth it.

Other ways of playing the market

Plain flipping is pretty boring and usually not that profitable, let’s look at other things we can do with the market.

Salvaging artifacts

You can salvage artifacts at the Artifact Foundry. Each one will net you 75% of its Item Value stat as silver and 25% of its components (listed in the description). So 12-13 Runes/Souls/Relics of the same tier as the artifact.

The thing is not everyone knows this, so people often sell off-meta artifacts for less than they could get from salvaging them.

Let’s just choose the artifact category on the market and buy the cheapest one.

Take our artifact and head to the Artifact Foundry. It looks like this:

Second tab is salvaging:

So we got 384 silver and 12 runes, which is 384 + 105*12*0.98 = 1618 silver.

Just like that, we’ve made over 400 silver per artifact, and that is without using sell/buy orders. If you set up buy orders for these artifacts, you’ll be able to make more. It’s like flipping but with an extra step, and the good thing is that once someone sells to your buy order, selling runes afterwards is extremely easy and fast, even with a sell order.

Salvaging gear

Rarely profitable, but still an option. Same thing as with artifacts, except you do it with gear (duh) and at the Repair Station. You get 75% of the Item Value stat as silver, a chance of extracting the artifact and 25% of the resources used in crafting. I’m guessing the chance to get the artifact is 25% as well, but it would need testing to confirm.

I’m not sure if this can ever be profitable, but maybe you could find something.

Enchanting

UPDATE: This whole section is outdated, it’s pretty much always not profitable to do this since they doubled the required ammount of runes to enchant. I’ll leave it as is.

You can enchant gear at the Artifact Foundry:

It is done by using Runes/Souls/Relics of the appropriate tier. For example to enchant a T4.0 cape all the way to T4.3 cape you’ll need T4 Runes (.0 => .1), then T4 Souls (.1 => .2), then T4 Relics (.2 => .3). The amount depends on the item:

  • 24 for off-hands, capes, head and leg armor.
  • 48 for bags, chest armor.
  • 72 for one-handed weapons.
  • 96 for two-handed weapons.

The quality remains the same, which makes this pretty overpowered imo. If you see .3 Masterpiece gear, it was probably created using this method.

You can use this to buy T4.0 gear, upgrade it, then sell for more. Good example is the helmet we’ve flipped, T4.0 Graveguard: .0 costs 32k, while .1 costs 50k. We’ll only need 24 runes to upgrade it, which is less than 3k.

Another way of making money from this is enchanting high quality gear, usually excellent or masterpiece weapons/armor. Buy a T4.0 masterpiece weapon, enchant it to .2 or .3, then sell for much more. Be sure to first check if people are actually buying .2/.3 masterpieces with market history tab.

Upgrading quality

You can upgrade quality of any gear that has one (some mounts for example don’t have qualities aside from normal) at the Repair Station.

It says reroll, but the quality actually can’t go down, only up.

It will cost you a hefty sum of money, depending on the tier and enchantment level of your item. It’s not a 100% chance and it goes down the higher the quality of your item is. Upgrading from Excellent to Masterpiece is almost impossible. However, you can skip a tier, upgrading from Good to Excellent right away for example. I’ve upgraded my transport mammoth that way, got lucky and paid only 80k (4 tries) for an Excellent mammoth.

Note that this is extremely risky and rarely worth it. You’re pretty much playing a lottery and it is very easy to lose a lot of money on this. Get used to seeing this:

It took me 8 attempts to get a Good quality, then 8 more to get Outstanding, pretty unlucky and totally not worth it in this case.

I would only recommend this if you’re flipping/enchanting from .0 (you might as well first try improving the quality as the cost for .0 items is pretty low, at least until it has Good/Outstanding quality) or if you’re trying to improve the quality of an expensive mount.

NPC re-trading

The idea behind this is buying something from an NPC, then selling it on the market, or buying on the market and selling to NPCs. For example, arena rewards: buy arena sigils on the market, buy an Armored Sabertooth from the Arena Master, then sell it on the market. Salvaging artifacts is very similar to this.

If you’ve ever played Neverwinter (the MMO), it was possible to make pretty decent money from this there. People were buying tools on the marketplace for more than NPCs all over the town were selling them for, same thing with the mounts. And a lot of gear was cheaper on the marketplace than NPCs were buying it for. I’ve managed to get good mounts for all my friends in the first two days of play by abusing this.

There aren’t many NPCs who sell anything in Albion yet, but you can keep an eye out on this for the future, maybe it will become a very profitable thing to do.

Transporting

Pretty straight-forward: buy in one town, haul to another and sell there. Sometimes you can even fast travel with the items and still make good money. Transporting between royal cities is safe, there are routes using only Blue and sometimes Yellow zones. Transporting to and from Caerleon is very risky, but nets the most profit.

I won’t get too much into detail here as I’ve never really done transporting for profit yet (bad connection, I’m not trusting millions to it), but if/when I do, I’ll probably write a guide on “the safest” ways of transporting.

Lucky purchases

This is probably the least profitable (silver/hour) and stable way of playing the market, but it is fun to do from time to time, and it helps you get to know the market better.

We’re going to be looking for items that are listed for much less than they cost. How do we find them?

Open the market, then click twice on the “Duration” column. Now the most recent items will be at the top. Don’t be trigger-happy unless you are absolutely sure about the price, for now we’re just looking.

See it?

Someone probably got a lucky random drop and doesn’t want to wait for a week to sell it. It is somewhat risky buying this, but we see multiple purchases for over 800k over the weeks, so it should sell in the next few days. I’ll buy it and list at 888k.

The idea here is to get a general sense of how much what item costs. Now we know a T6.3 two-handed meta weapon is around 700-900k, and even if we don’t buy this one, next time we see someone listing a T6.3 weapon for 200-300k we’ll instantly buy it.

You’ll get better results if you narrow the search down to a category you’re interested in. If you’re crafting bows for example, you can look at recent bow listings from time to time. You can snag a few cheap bows and resell them, but most importantly you’ll get a better sense on the prices and find new bows to craft. If you see something sell for more than it costs for you to craft – here’s your new crafting item.

You should also try filtering by quality (Masterpiece is a good one to find cheap gear, enchant it and resell), tier, enchantment level (looking for cheap .2/.3 gear).

In the first week of playing I was looking at the recent sell orders, when I saw this listed at 5k silver:

Yes, 5000. I only had about 100k at the time, I double checked and bought it. Sold it for 300k after a week.

I only had about 1.5m by that time, so this was a pretty nice boost.

Another one I got recently was a Siege Ballista battle mount for 11m silver.

Sold it for 14m in trade chat in less than a minute. Could probably ask for 16m or even more, but I needed silver quick for another thing, and I still made 3m so it’s alright in my book.

Final notes

You can combine the things above, like salvaging artifacts and enchanting, transporting and npc trading, etc etc. The less you pay in market fees, the higher your profits are.

Some people may deem these activities immoral or wrong or even call them cheating. “You’re just robbing people who don’t know any better of their hard earned money!” they’ll say. And they would be wrong. The people who are selling to buy orders are paying the difference for:

  1. Time. They get their money right away and don’t have to wait for their item to sell. You’re providing this service to them.
  2. Lack of knowledge. If they don’t know about buy/sell orders or don’t trust themselves with setting a price that people will pay in reasonable time – they didn’t spend time finding out about it and researching it. You saved them this time, no matter how little. There is enough info in and out of the game about these things.
  3. When they finally realize they’ve been wasting money for nothing, they should be glad they learned this lesson by losing money in a game and not in real life. You’ve taught them this lesson. Mistakes like missing a 0 when listing a price are also covered by this.

When it comes to making money there is no immoral way of doing it, as long as you’re not breaking the rules of the game.

As always you can contact me in game (Thulgrom), on Discord (Thulgrom#1425) or on Reddit (/u/Thulgrom).

If you want to thank me, I have 3 crafting stations (Warrior, Hunter, Mage) in Thetford, you’ll help me out by using them. If you need associate fees, just send me a mail and I’ll add you. (Outdated, don’t own any stations anymore as of 26/07)

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Cheers and good luck on the markets!

P.S: if you want to follow the blog and get updates when I post new stuff, you can either like the thread on the forums or subscribe with your email/WordPress account by clicking on the menu button in the top right corner of this page.

The Big Bad Cartel: Post Scriptum

Some afterthoughts, addressing criticism, counterpoints, stuff I didn’t think I had to mention and more about me. If you haven’t read the original TBBC post, read it before proceeding.

Winning

Disclaimer: this part of the post has nothing to do with Albion online.

The first competitive game with a public ranked ladder I’ve played somewhat seriously was League of Legends. I started playing during season 2, 2012. By the end of the season I was seriously hooked, trying to get better by any means available to me – reading guides, watching high level commentary on YouTube, watching streams. And, of course, playing when I could.

I was trying to become the best I could, and it was rewarding. I didn’t have time to play much ranked games in season two: you had to have more than 15 champions unlocked and level 30 to play ranked, and I’ve only managed that by the end of the season. But in season 3 all of my work paid off – I’ve reached Diamond 1 rank, the highest rank available at that time. According to op.gg, one of the best LoL stat tracking websites at the time, at some point I was in the top 2000 players on EUW server (more than 1.5 million players tracked) by ELO, arguably the server with the best players at the time. You can still see my stats on op.gg. That was my peak. I have still played the next few seasons, but not nearly as seriously. I’ve transferred my account to the RU sever to play with my girlfriend since then, and I still occasionally play ARAMs and 10 ranked games every season to get my rewards. I am pretty terrible at the game now though.

When I pick up a multiplayer game, I try to win at it. It doesn’t always work. Last game I tried to pick up before Albion was Tekken 7. Boy is it a hard game. I’ve trained and trained, watched and read countless guides about it, but I played badly no matter what. So I gave up.

I love single player games as well, but for different reasons. When it comes to multiplayer games – I need to be winning. Don’t get me wrong, I have a lot of fun learning things and failing in the process, making friends and enemies. But if I’m not winning in the end, it isn’t worth my time.

If you want to be winning at the games you play, you have to be ready to spend time on them. And often it means not only spending time in the game, but out of it as well. Other people are sharing their knowledge on the game and your competitors are using it, so if you aren’t doing so as well – you’ll fall behind.

Even more fun than passively absorbing public knowledge is partaking in it’s sharing and documentation. I’ve always been actively engaging in the communities of the games I’ve played, be it the forums, Reddit or Discord community servers.

Albion is the first game where I couldn’t find a good source of public knowledge about the niches that I chose to fill. This is half of the reason of why I created this blog, the other is that I just love talking about games and my gaming experience.

To summarize: I love winning and I’m going to be writing about how to win. If you have different goals in games, you’re probably not my target audience.

The Big Bad Opinion

How I feel about city plots is the same way I feel about city ownership or Mercia territories. It’s just late game content, something that is incredibly overpowered but locked behind a lot of walls and locks, so you spend time to reach it. If it gets nerfed or outright removed from the game – people who have been doing it will just move on to doing other things. But people who were on their way there will lose motivation.

I think the correct way of going about it in MMOs is to introduce more late-er game content with time, so that the game population is always moving towards something, and there is always something better to do. It is much easier said than done though.

Nerfing late game content is how WoW clones do it. Gevlon has it written out already so I’ll just link it here, read it if you care. I’ll just say that when there’s no longer anything to strive for – people like me will leave the game and play something else. So far Albion has proved to be different and I wouldn’t want it to surrender to the “slacker” culture.

The Big Bad Guy

I’ve had some interesting responses to my cartel post. I feel like addressing several of them here. Also some finger-pointing-and-laughing, just because I can.

People didn’t complain when I explained some obvious points in detail in my Crafting for profit guide. Most people just don’t bother thinking about some things, but once they do it may seem obvious. I’m just trying to make others think about the opposite point of view as well.

And addressing risk vs reward – this game is full of low risk – high reward situations, if you’re not using them it’s your fault, not the person’s who is.

Now comes this topic. Read the whole thing if you please.

I don’t claim to have a degree in economics, I work as a programmer. But I’m not talking about real world economics either. If you want to be technical, the gear does have 0 elasticity as a whole, but then the cartel doesn’t have a monopoly. You can always use stations on islands and territories. And don’t try comparing making your own gear in a game, where anyone can easily get an island with plots or even use someone else’s, to making gasoline in your backyard.

Here is the only relevant part of the post. The problem these people actually have is that “island crafting isn’t as profitable as crafting on city stations” and “most people don’t care and I care for them”. They somehow think they are entitled to high profits and the owners are not, even though we all are just regular players in a sandbox multiplayer game, free to do with our money and time as we please. And on the “saving those in need” – do what VOC does, just preferably leave the part about begging for donations out of it. You’ll be everyone’s hero I’m sure.

I have good news for you: it’s already in the game!

The only people who try to force something on others are people calling for admin intervention. You as a player choose what to focus on in the game, and you should expect to be bad at parts that you don’t care about. If I’m a gatherer who doesn’t care about PvP at all – I will die every time I get ganked. Is this the ganker’s fault, or my fault I didn’t bother taking precautions? Should the PKers get nerfed just because some people don’t want to partake in that part of the game and are forced to? No, because this is the whole point of having a sandbox game.

The_Reddit_detectives_find_out_why_taxes_in_Caerleon_are_high.jpg

We’ll end with some funny ones:

I think this guy doesn’t like me.

Whoosh!

You can see all my replies in this Reddit thread if you want, I’ve only included those worth mentioning in my opinion.

The Big Bad Cartel

You’ve probably heard something about the cartels, as it’s been a hot topic on the forums and Reddit in the past month or so. If you haven’t, I’ll give you a brief introduction, if you have, feel free to skip it and go to the paragraph titled “First things first”. But before all that…

Why am I writing this?

As another Reddit poster pointed out, it’s an awesome thing that we can have these kind of interactions, these kind of stories unravel in our game. Events like these are a really good promotion for the game: articles dedicated to them get posted on gaming news sites, and sometimes even on real news sites. You probably won’t be ashamed to tell your grand kids how you’ve fought in the World War Bee in the future, I know I won’t. Albion will have its own war fueled by space-rich whales some time, I’m sure of that. I’m also sure you’re looking forward to it as much as I am.

But there comes a time when the drama is going a bit overboard and there is an actual threat to the game’s well-being. When you need to stop, lean back and think about what you’re really doing. We’ll talk about this here, and we’ll also touch on the subjects of the economics of plot ownership, player cooperation, division of labor, whales, mafia, propaganda, drama, and all the good stuff that goes with it.

One other reason I’m writing this is to put an end to this topic for myself, as it has been eating away at me for the past weeks and I’d like to move onto other things.

Disclaimer

Before we begin, I’d like to ask this of you: please read the whole thing before rushing to paint me as a troll/shill for one side or the other. As much as that would be cool if it were true, I’m not a spy, Vasort’s alt, secret mafioso or a double-agent. I am, however, a plot owner starting this month, and I am cooperating with the current cartel in Thetford (holding taxes when others do so).

You should take all that I write here with a grain of salt and think for yourself, just like you should be doing when reading anything on the internet. I will do my best to be as unbiased as possible in this position, and try to write this as merely a player passionate about the game and its economic system, explaining my understanding of some of its concepts.

The content of this post is my personal vision of the situation. I’m not claiming to be the absolute authority on the topic or to be able to read other players’ minds (unless stated otherwise).

Expect this post to be quite long, and I will not be providing a TL;DR. It will be this way because I think it’s an emotional topic for a lot of people, and the only way to try and show both sides of the coin to a person through the emotional shield is to walk them through every step of the way. I hope this will provide some food for thought for people who are interested in Albion Online’s economics, politics and drama, and as long as even a single person reads this from start to finish and finds something he hasn’t heard before – I will think of my job as well done.

With the formalities finished, lets begin.

What’s this all about?

Some time ago, way before f2p launch, players in several cities in the Royal Continent decided to band together and stop undercutting each other’s taxes on city crafting stations, coming up with a system that assigns tax amounts to stations depending on their location. This is called price-fixing, and the resulted organisation of players is called a cartel.

Some time after the f2p launch an “anti-cartel” initiative was formed, with a streamer named VOC as the main actor. They have managed to snag a plot in Caerleon last month due to changes to the bidding rules, and set up a Forge with 15% tax. The cartel didn’t react, making said Forge the most used station in Caerleon, with it accumulating over 160 millions of silver in taxes over the month. During this auction cycle it got bought out for almost 100 million silver, with VOC getting half of that sum.

This month one of the anti-cartel initiative members has managed to get another plot, and so they’ve built a Toolmaker station with 15% taxes. The cartel reacted this time, by setting all the other Toolmaker stations at 8%, making the initiative’s station lose almost all of its clients.

Vasort, one of the biggest owners on the Caerleon plot market, has written a post in response to all the backlash, explaining some of his history and motivation (regardless of his motivation for writing this or your views of him, I think it’s worth a read).

This has been the rough timeline for the present.

First things first

If you haven’t already, check out my post titled Division of labor. To summarize: most money-making activities in Albion online are linked together, and players greatly benefit from focusing on a few activities at a time, while making it possible for a whole economy to live and thrive on the combined effort of all the players involved.

These linked activities are highly dependent on each other. If there’s an abundance of Ore gatherers, then Bar prices will drop, making crafting anything from Bars more profitable, in turn attracting more crafters and dropping the price of that gear as a result. Dropped prices will attract more buyers, raising the prices in return, and so on, and so forth.

Now let’s get back to the city plots. A city crafting station is just another “activity”, just like gathering and crafting, right?

Yes and no.
  • Yes, because, just like every other activity, it is done for profit, and the player doing the activity will understandably try his best to maximize the profit from it.
  • No, because it is the only money-making activity where the number of participating players is strictly limited, and the only activity where you are strongly discouraged from dropping or pausing it by they way it is set up in the game. It is also the most inherently risky activity (without forming cartels) and requires the biggest investments by a long shot.

All that not only makes it possible, but encourages people who own plots to band together for several reasons. So let’s try to understand them, as well as why is the cartel so persistent once it has been formed.

Why does it make sense to form a cartel?

As with any activity in the game (or in real life), people greatly benefit from working together. If you form a guild you can take territories, making it safer and more efficient for your gatherers to gather, for your PVE groups to do random dungeons, and for you to craft. Forming a cartel also accomplishes multiple things:

  • All plot owners will have a chance to get their share of profit.

Most people don’t craft much and tend to go to the closest stations at random, while people who craft more tend to go the the cheapest stations. By having different taxes depending on the distance from the city center, but the same taxes on closely packed stations, the cartel accomplishes to satisfy its every member. Remember, these people are trying to make money and not lose it, so they’ll look for a way to be as safe as possible while doing so. Forming a cartel makes buying and maintaining a plot a much safer investment.

  • Security

Big investments need to be either safe or net huge profits. City plots are neither without cartels, but can be both if every owner is a member of one. By stopping infighting owners not only share the profits from crafters of their city, but also don’t try and sabotage each other with auction bids, making it much easier to defend. I’ve heard that with the old bidding system they even helped each other to fend off big targeted bets.

  • More securtiy

If every owner communicates with each other, they can come up with a healthy distribution of station types, where no one is left without customers. Introduction of outsiders to the plot market can force owners to demolish their buildings to switch stations types, which is costly and time-consuming.

Why doesn’t the cartel drop their taxes?

  • You won’t sell the ore you’ve gathered for half it’s marketplace price – people will still buy it for the full price.

Same logic here. People who are crafting aren’t doing this because they are forced to by the game. You can be winning at the game without crafting a single item, and a lot of PVP-focused players don’t craft at all. People who do are doing it to make money, and they are going to be doing it as long as they deem it profitable. The plot owner is just a link in the production chain of an item. If he is eating up too much of the end item’s value – people will find another way of crafting, or even another way of making money. But the owner’s goal is to eat up as big a share of the profit as possible without turning his clients away, just like with any other link.

For example if you’re gathering, you want to sell your mats for as high as possible, but not too high to the point of no one buying them. If you’re crafting, you’ll want to buy the cheapest materials, use the cheapest station and sell for the biggest price. It makes sense to do so and is how every healthy market works.

People can also use whatever stations without paying attention to the tax, even if it is less profitable than using island stations. They are either paying for convenience (no need to make your own stations or search for public islands with stations) or for their own mistakes.

  • Security once again

The owner doesn’t know how much he is going to spend defending the plot next month, especially with the new system. It can be 50m one month and 500k the other, that doesn’t necessarily mean the plot became unprofitable and that the owner has to give it up. By having constant taxes the owner can save up and pull through a bad month or two to enjoy the benefits of plot owning later. It may not be the best business decision for the owner, but people love to attach themselves to objects or places and dislike changes, so it makes sense why an owner wouldn’t want to part with his plot, even if he has to lose some money in the process. And the owners are still just players, they aren’t perfect and you shouldn’t expect them to be.

The last reason comes from my experience and from me talking to various plot owners. It’s pretty simple:

  • If taxes are to be universally dropped, the absolute majority of the player base won’t ever notice it.

The average player doesn’t craft that much and isn’t affected by taxes to any meaningful degree. They will use the closest station when they craft and will never even bother to look at the tax numbers of stations nearby. The whales probably won’t notice too, they’re already crafting with associate fees or on their own stations. Cartel surely can do “the right thing”, they will probably survive on 40% taxes, or even 30%, but what is the point in doing it if pretty much no one will care? This is a game after all, you’re not going to “burn in hell for not being a saint” in it.

So there is really no good incentive for the cartel to drop their fees, but maybe they should be forced to anyway?

Should the cartels be forced to drop their fees?

If you’re not a plot owner yourself – you absolutely should try to force them as much as you reasonably can, but without driving them out of business completely (others will come in their place and you’ll have to do it all over again). The less money plot owners make, the more money you will make on average. But that means you do it with the tools the game provides to you. Crafting on your guild’s territory for example, joining a guild to get associate fees, even making propaganda and sabotaging the cartel by getting one station at the outskirts and forcing them to drop taxes to make it less profitable to you, which can still be profitable in the end once you calculate all the savings from using cartel’s cheap stations and selling your plot next month.

Trying to sway admins by fabricating an outrage, telling new players they have no chance in this game, that they are oppressed and should just quit, is not the right way to do this. People who do this are hurting the game tremendously in the long run. If new players are told they won’t succeed – they won’t even bother to try, and that’s how games die out. I was never told that I’m “getting scammed”, so I crafted on 50% stations for the first month or so, and I’d like to think that I’ve been successful to some degree.

Why is the cartel undercutting people who undercut them?

Because these people are undercutting them. These people aren’t trying to negotiate with the cartel on lowering the overall fees, they silently undercut, which can’t really be seen as anything but a threat from the cartel’s point of view. If someone’s trying to ruin other people’s business, they will retaliate. And the taxes being fair or not have nothing to do with this.

What is wrong with the current plot system

But Thulgrom, people are still unhappy, are we supposed to just drop the pitchforks and go home now?” you’ll say. Well, let’s look at the plot system and why is it so hard to operate without forming cartels in it:

1) Too little variety between stations.

For example Thetford has 99 spots for stations, but there are only 14 types of stations, and only ~8 of them are decently popular with customers, so usually there are multiple stations of the same type in close vicinity of each other. If the taxes aren’t different, people will go to the closest/at random. If taxes are different though, most stations go out of service and the city will end up with a monopoly again anyway. Having a price-fixing group is the only way for plot owners not to eat each other alive, the only stable state and as such the cartel will inevitably reinstate itself.

Proposed solution: more customization options for stations. Right now all that you can do is build a fence on your plot, which just makes it harder for people to get to your station. I guess being able to do that to other plots would help. If owners could somehow make their stations unique, spend money on them further than just buying a plot and justify the raise in price in that way, there wouldn’t be such a need for price-fixing.

2) Tax is calculated from item value, which is a constant. Food and block prices are not.

So with silver value fluctuations taxes will have to fluctuate as well, and that makes people who don’t know about this unhappy.

Proposed solution: none, it’s an underlying problem with the whole economy system of the game and I don’t see an easy way to change it. The best we can do is to stop fear-mongering new players about how oppressed they are every time taxes go up a bit.

3) New auction system

Actually, I don’t think it’s a problem. It lets people get into the market easier, drives taxes up as defending is harder, but also down at the same time as some plots are very cheap to defend, so it balances out somewhat. However, a popular suggestion of taking the full bid instead of the second highest+1 silver as the winning bid is going to quickly raise taxes to cosmic amounts in my opinion, and the game’s economy might take a huge hit, which can even prove unrecoverable.

Proposed solution: I don’t think this needs any.

4) It is very hard to judge the profitability of a plot without having first-hand experience or direct access to people with such experience

Right now if you want to get into the plot business, you don’t have a much better way of finding how profitable it is other than throwing silver at an auction and hoping to somehow make that investment back. You can monitor the money in the station from time to time, but unless you can be sure if it was or wasn’t taken out by the owner in between your checks, that will hardly be something you can base an investment of 30-100 million silver on. One month of one plot isn’t even that great of an example to base your judgement on. One can only ask people who’ve been doing it for years on multiple plots and hope they are honest when they answer.

Proposed solution: making the stations keep their tax income statistics, then sharing them to everyone who wants to check? I really don’t know a good way of doing this.

How to fight the cartel

If crafters don’t keep the cartel in check, it could easily abuse that freedom to charge completely unreasonable taxes. To reiterate, I believe the tax problem is only being faced by established crafters, it isn’t a new player problem, so I’ll be talking about ways for crafters, and crafters only, to stand their ground. Here is how we can stop them from doing so:

  • Check the taxes. Calculate your profit.

Don’t blindly use stations you’re always using. If you want to craft on industrial scale, you need to know exactly what part of your profit get eaten up by the taxes, and once it gets too big you need to consider options other than crafting on the cartel’s stations.

  • Throw in together with your friends/guild/alliance and buy yourself a plot.

As long as you keep the user taxes up the cartel won’t care. Enjoy your 0% tax. With just a few bulk crafters you will save enough on this to finance another month of auction bidding.

  • Craft on your territories.

You’ll need to be in a guild for this. As long as your guild isn’t too weak, you can always buy a territory (not in Mercia I presume) and defend it.

  • Make friends.

Seriously, don’t make the cartel into your enemy. You’re coexisting in a system where you depend on each other, so if you want to get the best out of this situation you’ll have to learn to make friends, not enemies. I’m not even mentioning that most of these people have been in the business for years, they have the money to outlast you.

Now in this next section I am going to be as biased as possible. Enjoy.

Why do I support the cartel?

Multiple reasons.

  • Right now being anti-cartel has became mainstream, so, being the true centrist that I am I just had to jump on the cartel’s bandwagon.

As for the real reasons, there are four:

  • I came into this business expecting to earn money, not lose it.

I came into this business expecting to experience the plot ownership for myself, as well as collect some actual data on it. If I go against the cartel everybody can already guess what would happen, it’s not interesting for me. Besides, even if they don’t sway and let me have the lowest taxes, the data would still be worthless.

  • Yarlam, the guy running Thetford’s cartel, has been very nice to me before and after I got plots there.

When I asked him for associate fees one month ago (back when I had 10 mil crafting fame), he gave them to me without asking for anything in return. That re-sparked the light of crafting in me and I continued crafting more and more, until I briefly switched to trying out PVP two weeks later. I don’t want to harm this guy for no reason, and I honestly don’t see a good reason for doing so.

  • I want to make people happy for longer than a few days.

As I’ve outlined above, I strongly believe dropping taxes universally will go unnoticed by the majority of the player base, and even those who notice it will forget about it in a week. Having associate fees on the other hand is completely different. It doesn’t give too much of an advantage (50% vs 25% I saved around 1m in taxes on a bulk that I’d profit 10m from), while actually stimulating you to keep crafting and making you feel like you’re winning at the game. And you are.

  • I will not stand for crafters slandering plot owners just so they can steal their piece of the pie.

If you want the cartel to drop taxes – lead the way and show them an example: stop using the Black Market, then start undercutting the gear on the marketplace by huge amounts. You can still sustain your crafting by selling that Soulscythe for 220k, why are you listing it at 300k? You’re getting crafting fame in the process, that should be enough for you, right?

[Everyone disliked that]

If it were up to me, I’d strip all crafting stations in royals from their resource returns and up it in black zones, making crafting on territories the only profitable way of doing it. That would force people to transport the gear and materials through black zones. You’d have to make caravans for that, and it would be worth your time to form ganking groups to rob these caravans. I know most people probably wouldn’t like this, but I’ve played a game that had no safe way of crafting gear, and transporting gear or robbing the caravans was the most fun I’ve ever had in any MMO. I’ll probably write about it in later posts.

Final notes

I’ve decided to leave my opinions of VOC, the anti-cartel initiative and the reasons behind their actions completely out of this post. I’ll just use this little bit of space I have left here to say to them: I love the drama you guys create, but please refrain from pulling admins or new players into this, for the game’s sake.

I previously wanted to delay posting about the cartel until I have some data from my stations, but with all the propaganda, Vasort’s post, and just me being impatient as usual, I’ve finished writing this post pretty much from scratch all in one day, and have decided to let it go up on its own. The data from my stations will be posted after the end of this auction cycle. Excuse me for any typos or mistakes, I’ll try fixing them tomorrow.

Now with this topic out of the way, I’m finally feeling free to do other things I like: crafting and learning new things about the game. Next post will probably be about flipping and all its various forms. I will also be going to Caerleon to try out the Black Market trading and documenting that, as well as looking further into focus points usage.

And until then, good luck on the markets!

Division of labor

Or why we can have good things.

This is an addendum to the previous post, Judging efficiency, as I feel I should expand on it a bit. If you haven’t read it yet, you can do so before or after reading this one.

Self-sustenance

A few weeks ago I saw a post on Reddit about a guy who has imposed a rule on himself to make the game more challenging: he was going to only use the gear he crafted himself, with materials he collected himself, using silver he picked up himself. Sounds pretty cool right? It does, but after a few days of playing, when approaching tier 4 you’ll find your progress slowing down to a halt. Refined materials take exponentially more raw materials with every tier, unlocking T4 gathering takes some time even for a single tool, and you’ll need at least 3. You probably won’t play much further than this, because even when you manage to get full T4 set of gear, you’ll still be riding a donkey, you will still be afraid to go anywhere but blue/yellow zones because replacing your gear will take you a week, and progressing in royals is terribly slow compared to black zones.

So we can see that being completely self-sufficient is, although fun at first, very unproductive after a while. This is an MMO game after all, it was designed with constant people interaction in mind. Now we come to the thing we often take for granted in multiplayer games, and even more so in real life, the thing that makes us progress much faster, the thing that makes it possible to enjoy this game for all of us (except that guy from Reddit I guess): division of labor.

The big picture

Think about how your 6.1 Royal Hood came into your inventory. People had to gather T2-T6 resources, refine them, then someone bought the resources and the Royal Sigils that people also had to get by doing daily expeditions, crafted the hood. And what about the stations? Someone bid on an auction and won, constructed the station, fed it. The station used up blocks that also had to be refined, and for them raw materials had to be mined. Food had to be cooked, crops watered and harvested. Farms and refineries constructed. Sounds pretty grand, don’t you think? And this is true for almost every single item in this game. Would this be possible if no one traded? Absolutely not.

This is why I love player driven economies. One of the first MMO games I’ve played had a similar system (it’s a Russian game that isn’t known at all outside of Russia, I might talk a bit more about it in the future posts), and I can no longer stick to MMO games without these economic systems for longer than a few weeks. However, I’ve put countless hours in that game, EVE online, now putting in hours in Albion, and I’m loving it.

Where am I in all of this?

That’s the beauty of it – you’re where you want to be. You can be a gatherer, you can refine materials, you can transport them between cities, you can craft, you can manage crafting stations, you can fight for territories to make it easier for your friends to gather/craft/transport, you can flip goods on the market without ever leaving it. All of these activities add a little bit to the value of each other’s products, and together they can create a finished item.

Some of these activities are more late-game than early-game, as you’d generally need progressively bigger investments the further up the chain you go, so you might find it hard to skip to the top. I don’t see why it’s a bad thing though. You’ll still want to be familiar with the whole chain below you to be successful in your place, and you can accomplish that by gradually moving up, amassing a capital you’ll need to continue moving up in the process.

Now, as long as you participate in the production chain – you’re contributing, and you’re entitled to compensation for the time and money investments you’ve made doing so. Don’t let others make you think otherwise.

Being efficient

Here the previous post comes in. As stated there, you’ll want to research this chain of production and take upon yourself the links that are most fun/profitable, take as many links as you see fit while throwing out the ones you deem not worth your time. Don’t hesitate to use other people services/labor to further your silver/hour numbers, after all we only have so many hours in a day.

And now you, hopefully, understand a little bit better how the division of labor works, and how you can use it to your advantage.

What to expect next

Right now I’m slowly writing my thoughts on city plot ownership, the cartel, the anti-cartel initiative, as well as collecting data from my own plots. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, don’t worry, I’ll give a brief introduction in the post. I have written several paragraphs already, but it is still far from being finished and may take another week or two. I will try to make it as compact as possible, but I’m afraid it will still be a pretty chunky post.

UPDATE: The cartel post is up.

In the meantime expect more rambling, a focus point spending guide (more of a mindset than a guide), and maybe a glimpse into the world of spreadsheets as I see it.

Until then, good luck on the markets!

Crafting for profit

Today we’re going to be talking about crafting. We’ll talk about crafting for the normal marketplace for now, not Black Market.

In this post I will try to give an example of how to start making money from crafting with an investment of less than 50k silver. I am based in Thetford, so the example will take place there, using city crafting stations with 50% taxes (far west stations).

We will not be using focus points in this example. I will expand on focus points in later posts, for now just forget about them.

I will assume you have premium already, but even if you don’t, all that’s going to be changed is the market sell fee (4% instead of 2%), so this post should still be useful to you.

Preface/Disclamer

I think the most important thing to understand about market gaming in any online game is that it’s a PvP activity. You’re always competing with all the other people doing it. In Albion, if you chose to craft for profit, your competition isn’t limited to other crafters from your city. You will also be competing with people doing trade runs from other cities and with people selling their loot from dungeons, hell gates or ganks/camps. Don’t get discouraged yet, there’s a place for you in this market machine, just don’t expect that place to fall into your hands on its own.

Do not expect to make much money selling the exact item from the example below. The money making part comes from crafters spreading their attention over all the different gear, and if many people are crafting the same item its price and your profit will drop. Don’t worry though, there are enough items in this game for everyone, just don’t give up after the first unprofitable one you check.

Finding your place

Now with the boring stuff out of the way, let’s make some money!

Market can seem very overwhelming at first, but you will only need to know a small section of it in the beginning. Let’s start by choosing what to craft. The easiest way to do this is to look at your gear. What are you using? Chances are, it costs less to craft than to buy off the marketplace.

For this example I’ve picked T4.1 Light Crossbow. T4.0 gear is very rarely profitable as it generally has low demand and very high supply at the moment. T4.1 gear on the other hand is used extensively in hell gates and by gankers or gatherers, making it very desired and often lost by users on death, raising its price as a result. Let’s check the price for our item:

Note: to get this info you need to click the little arrow near the top right corner of the order window.

Average price isn’t often the best indicator, you’d want to look at the flat lines on the curve to see a reasonable price. By hovering over the graph we can see that people have bought over 30 items for more than 13k silver in the past 18 hours, and the current lowest sell order is at 13.6k, so we can expect to sell our crossbows for 13k a piece in less than a day as long as we don’t craft too many at once.

Now let’s look at the material costs. You can check the materials required by clicking on the items icon in the top left corner of the same market window, then scrolling a bit down:

16 planks and 8 bars, let’s check their prices:

263 * 16 = 4208 silver.

340 * 8 = 2720 silver.

Combine that together and we get 6928 silver material cost of a crossbow.

There’s a formula to calculate the crafting fees for an item, but we won’t bother with it for now. Just assume the taxes will be around 20% of the end product price. 3% of the end price will also go to the market fees, together that will be 13000 * 0.20 = 2990 silver.

Total estimated cost to craft and sell: 9918 silver. Total estimated profit per item: 3082 silver.

Good, now we know this will most likely be a pretty good start, but we’ll need to unlock T4 crafting for crossbows first. I recommend buying T3 materials for around 10 crossbows, crafting them and researching them at the station. That should give you enough fame to unlock the T4 node. If not, buy a bit more materials. This should cost you less than 20k silver.

Now that you can craft T4 crossbows, let’s buy the materials. I’ll buy enough for 10 crossbows, but you can start with even 1 or 2.

36820 + 3900 + 1300 = 42020 for 160 planks, 27200 for 80 bars, or 69220 silver total.

Time to craft

Crossbows are from the warrior’s tree, so let’s head to the cheapest forge in town.

Alright well, I said we’re using 50% tax stations so we’ll use this instead:

Oh. Turns out while I was writing this the fees of all forges except one dropped to 17-20%. We’ll use the only 55% one left instead. Other stations are still at 50-55%.

So at 55% tax the crafting fee is 1980 silver per crossbow, which is a bit lower than the estimated “20% of end price” 2600 fee. So crafting one crossbow will cost us 69220 (total material cost) / 10 + 1980 = 8902 silver.

Sweet! But wait, we also have leftover resources we forgot to include in our calculations. City crafting stations normally return 15% of the materials spent. For simplicity’s sake I’ll just sell these to the buy orders, but you can safely think of this 15% resource return rate as a 15% discount on material costs. Also you will probably get more normal items and less good ones, but that doesn’t affect the price as much as you’d think, especially for lower tier items.

Selling our goods

I sold my leftover resources for 5512 + 3410 = 8922 silver. As for crossbows, I’ll just list them all at 13k, 130k total paying 1300 silver market fee for listing them.

Let’s calculate our expenses now:

  • Materials: 69220 – 8922 (leftover) = 60298 silver.
  • Crafting fees: 19800 silver.
  • Listing fee: 1300 silver.

Total spent so far: 81398 silver.

Once we sell the crossbows over the next several hours, we’ll get 13000 – 260 (2% market tax) = 12740 silver per crossbow, or 127400 silver for all 10. That makes our profit 127400 – 81398 = 46002 silver, more than 50% of what we’ve spent! At this point we have already made back our investment into learning T4 crossbow crafting and can continue making money.

Note that I’ve bought the materials straight from the market. You can make more money if you set up buy orders for the materials, transport them from other towns, or, sometimes, if you refine them yourself. This adds on top of the profit we’ve already made, and I’ll encourage you to research the prices of the materials once you’re comfortable with doing what I’ve shown here.

Now go out and apply all that you’ve learned today to some other gear!

Final notes

I tried to make this example very basic and simple, while having all the math written out and all the steps listed. This is my first try at writing something like this, so please don’t judge me too harshly for any mistakes, inconsistencies or repetitions, but feel free to point them out in the comments.

I will go into more in-depth concepts in later posts, as well as discuss topics other than crafting, so stay tuned. I’ve also excluded a paragraph from this post that I deemed not worthy of inclusion, it will go up as a separate post a bit later. (Update: it is now up)

As always you can contact me in game (Thulgrom), on Discord (Thulgrom#1425) or on Reddit (/u/Thulgrom). Cheers!

P.S: If you need access to associate fees (30-25% tax on Warrior, Mage and Hunter stations) in Thetford just PM me on Discord or send a mail in-game, I’ll add you asap. And if you want to thank me – just use my stations 🙂 (Outdated, don’t own stations anymore as of 26/07)

P.P.S: if you want to follow the blog and get updates when I post new stuff, you can either like the thread on the forums or subscribe with your email/WordPress account by clicking on the menu button in the top right corner of this page.